Slap, I have some questions about Kydex, its qualities, and alternate mock up materials

Cost, preferred weight, malleability, etc.  If you don't have time today, I'll try to catch you this weekend.

Comments

  • Watchya doin?
  • edited December 2019
    I'm thinking about a brass catcher for a bullpup.

    People seem to mostly use some sort of bag now, but you may remember from the 80s, the 1980s, a catcher for ARs that was rigid plastic and clamped under the carry handle.  If memory serves, it may have suffered from poor plastic, but I think a rigid receptacle may have some advantages, and I'm thinking about how to make one.

    Slap has made his own holsters and magazine carriers.
  • Did you ever buy that Keltec RFB?
  • ZedZed
    edited December 2019
    I've also been looking at brass catchers. Was looking at the Caldwell offerings, which come with pic rail or velcro mounting options:

    Pic rail: https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Resistant-Convenient-Picatinny-Collection/dp/B00EB5OU0Q/
    Velcro: https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Resistant-Convenient-Mountable-Collection/dp/B004SKCUME/

    Looks like these guys make a wide range of rigid units. (heh heh... rigid unit)
  • Chris, those E&L units seem like what I recalled being attached to carry handle ARs.

    I've used and still have the Caldwell Picatinny attached basket.  I think I have the mounting adapter on more than one rifle.  When they first appeared, the adapter block was almost as much as the adapter and bag, but the adapter price has come down into the teens now.  I like them for rifles that don't use steel cased.

    I'm thinking about a Keltec RDB.  It's weird because it's a Keltec, and I can make a really good AR for less, but I am intrigued by it.  I can't wait for Ruger to steal this layout.

    One of the knocks on the RDB is that shooting it with a bipod is harder because the brass spits out of the bottom of the stock just ahead of the butt, so you can't place a support hand there to control elevation.  A rigid kydex "bucket" that served as a part of the stock would not just catch brass, but would also allow use of the support hand under the stock.
  • What is it about the rifles that use steel cased ammo?  Just that you don't want/need to save the casings?
  • nbody said:

    Did you ever buy that Keltec RFB?

    No. For a while you just couldn’t get them and then by the time you could I had lost interest.

  • Zed said:

    What is it about the rifles that use steel cased ammo?  Just that you don't want/need to save the casings?

    Exactly.  I don't care if someone else on the line takes my steel cases.

    Eric, looks like you didn't miss too  much either.
  • nbody said:

    I'm thinking about a brass catcher for a bullpup.


    The main advantages of Kydex are in comparison to leather, it is more malleable, less flexible when "cold," and far more resistant to harsh cleaning chemicals.  Among Kydex's disadvantages is its undesired flexibility when it gets "hot."  I've heard complaints about kydex holsters which are tuned to a particular retention of a gun (how strong a tug draws the gun, or causes it to fall out of the holster) loosening up when left in a "hot" car.  (100-130F?).  Shaping, depending on the subcategory of kydex is done after heating it to about 450F (that's from memory, I didn't look up the precise number, but I think it starts shrinking and gradually turns into a burnt hot-dog if you leave it in the oven at 550F for too long.

    So, as a brass catcher, I'd expect that wherever the hot brass settles, the Kydex will loosen up.  When its at working temperature, around 400-450F, Kydex feels only slightly less flexible than the big flat noodles in Lasagna when its served, except it deforms instead of tearing, so you couldn't put hot kydex on a plate and *easily* cut it with a fork, like softer Lasagna.

    I wouldn't rule the idea out entirely though.  The advantage of a kind of snap-on flexibility/rigidity makes it nice for "snaping" a gun into a holster or an attachment onto your gun, with screws to adjust tension.  That tension might be difficult to adjust or keep working anywhere too close to a hot ejection port.  Some kind of basket, made of kydex with the same kind of nylon netting in a Caldwell brass catcher, to let the brass cool quickly, could maybe work.  Soft metal with a spring or ball-detent, like the caldwell picatinny attachment might be a clearly superior solution though, anywhere near hot propellant gases.

    I don't mix fast shooting and practicing drawing.  I typically do slow, low round count drills if I'm reholstering between shots, just because my hoslter is made out of relatively thin .06 Kydex, and I don't want to wear it out/deform it unnecessarily.  I'm still waiting for a .08 thickness "buy one, get two sheets" sale, since my efforts at double thickness .06 holster making were lousy.

    I paid about$1.50 for each 8" x 12" x .06 inch thick Kydex T, when it was on sale from the link below.  (A more temperature stable, impact resistant subtype).  https://holsterbuilder.com/product-category/material/
  • nbody said:


    A rigid kydex "bucket" that served as a part of the stock would not just catch brass, but would also allow use of the support hand under the stock.

    Its a neat idea, but I'd wonder about how the brass cools.  How much is the openness of that brass ejection chute also a part of how air cools the entire action instead of baking your face.  For low rates of fire, it probably wouldn't be an issue.


    Also, Kydex "V" is the super cheap stuff I've seen on ebay, that I avoided trying after reading below:


    There’s KYDEX and then there’s KYDEX

    Much like there are different grades of leather, there are different grades of thermoplastic. KYDEX manufactures over 40 different lines of thermoplastic sheets, each with its own properties and price point. Their product lines include budget plastics made from re-grind/ recycled grades of sheet: lower-cost products with lower performance standards than higher-cost materials.

    The thickness, grain, and ability to withstand temperature determine the sheet’s grade. KYDEX T and KYDEX 100 are the most popular materials used by companies making gun holsters and knife sheaths. KYDEX 100 is known in the business as “The Gold Standard for Thermoforming.” It’s super tough and durable. It arrives at the holster or sheath maker’s shop in a proprietary “alloy sheet.” It offers excellent formability, rigidity, break and chemical resistance. It also withstands high temperatures.

    Consumers should ask the holster manufacture what brand name thermoplastic they use (or check the package). If it’s KYDEX, customers should ask which product. Quality manufactures will be happy and proud to discuss their production process, especially if they’re forming high-quality materials. If the manufacturer states that they use a “proprietary blend,” ask for the speciation sheet and material safety data sheet (MSDS). Otherwise the “proprietary blend” may be the scraps swept off the floor of a company using high-grade material.

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/truth-kydex-holsters/

  • Zed said:

    I've also been looking at brass catchers. Was looking at the Caldwell offerings, which come with pic rail or velcro mounting options:
    Found video of the picatinny mounted.

    image


  • Slap, I have a working prototype to show you if you stop by.  I am warning you because I don't want you to lose your mind when you see how spectacular it is.
  • edited December 2019
    It's hard to see the clear brass catcher, but it's made of a vitamin bottle and two zip ties.

    image
  • Yes.

    The vitamin bottle was emptied this weekend, and the zip ties aren't the ones I bought at HF, but were given to me and sitting on a shelf in the garage.
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