Mass shooting thread

It seemed to work pretty well over at the pool so I thought we could have one.

I was reading the news about the latest shooting in El Paso where I was told that this right-wing terrorist was a Trump supporter and had a manifesto.  As is typical, the news wouldn't post a the text of the manifesto but were happy to highlight parts of it that fit their narrative.  After some digging this site appears to have the text, a short read - https://egbertowillies.com/2019/08/03/patrick-crusius-manifesto/

Couple of things stand out to me, one is his gun talk.  Forgive my lack of proper terminology, but he used a semi-auto WASR-10 AK-looking rifle and 8m3 ammo that is more likely to fragment then tumble.  He seemed this combo would be more damaging?

The other thing that stood out is how we need a new name for this type of terrorist.  Very similar to the shooter in NZ (he gives the shooter props) this guy doesn't like immigration and race-mixing but is also anti-corporation and very pro-environment.  It seems to defy definition of left vs right.

Comments

  • I saw a bit of the news shows this morning.  Jake Tapper had Bernie Sanders to ask a series of questions that were approximately "I think Trump should stop his racist hate speech that causes mass murder.  Do you agree?".  I think Sanders saw the obvious question - If DJT's words cause these murders, didn't your words cause the Alexandria shooting?.  He offered the observation that public discourse doesn't cause this, but....

    My impression of many of these people is that they see themselves, perhaps accurately, as without purpose or use.

    I agree with Jordan Peterson's observation that you can't make deny young men a useful social identity, i.e. not racial, and simultaneously make identity politics the coin of the political realm without inviting socially detached people from using identity explanations and causing harm.


  • Once again we are reminded that Gun Free Zones aren't; and that the way to stop a shooter is to shoot him.


    Also...

    Approximately 99.7% of all handguns in the US and 99.9% of all long guns i the US are NOT involved in ANY sort of crime.
    And yet, progressives (fascists) routinely blame and target the inanimate object.

    So is that because progressives can't do Logic?

    Or is it a more cynical ploy to make political hay from tragedy so that you can disarm the population as those great Marxist leaders like Chavez, Castro, Mao, Stalin and Hitler did?


    Finally, NDT, the most pompous astrophysicist in the history of civilization tweeted this...

    In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings.

    On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

    500 to Medical errors
    300 to the Flu
    250 to Suicide
    200 to Car Accidents
    40 to Homicide via Handgun

    Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data.


    Guess what happened next.





  • MC Escher said:


    Guess what happened next.




    "I hope you're not referring to that unperson, Uncle-Tom-"gun violence"-epidemic-denying, NDT!?  Are you a Nazi?!"



    At least I presume that's what happened next.
  • Re: Manifesto
    The 2nd to last paragraph is notable.

    I doubt CNN will be posting it anytime soon.


  • 2.FOH. said:

    Re: Manifesto

    The 2nd to last paragraph is notable.

    I doubt CNN will be posting it anytime soon.


    Morning Joe had a panel on this morning all trying to one up each other in expression of moral outrage at DJT.  

    Remember when the TV only had ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and a couple of independent UHF stations that mostly played old films?  Only four of those channels had real news once a day, and that was for a half hour.   You might think that with many more channels doing nothing but "news" they could cover more topics.  Instead, there wee two kinds of stories.  1.  There was a mass murder because our laws allow "Hi" capacity magazines in "Assault Weapons".  2.  These events are acts of white terrorism, the natural consequence of DJT's words.

    The only new element in this cycle is that the story isn't all option 1, because part of the derangement syndrome requires that bad news be about DJT in some way.  

    They blame him for "fanning tensions" with his rhetoric, but don't seem to know what that means.  If there is a tension between two groups, the Sanders Socialists/AOC Farmer Workers Socialists and people who feel threatened by bigger government and corporations, then addressing that tension with words is what lefties used to call "consciousness raising", talking about something until people think about it.

    Maybe it's natural to blame a problem on a person, but BHO, DJT, AOC and Sanders wouldn't be anyone without their constituencies.  My guess is that these constituencies would find expression in someone else if these people weren't available.
  • I'm trying to imagine the most outlandish thing Trump could do with this aspect of their derangement.  Condemn the shooter, but hold out the possibility of pardoning him if he has a "Road to Damascus" moment?  Condemn the shooter, but cite his actions as support for building a wall?
  • edited August 5
    Slap said:

    I'm trying to imagine the most outlandish thing Trump could do with this aspect of their derangement.  Condemn the shooter, but hold out the possibility of pardoning him if he has a "Road to Damascus" moment?  Condemn the shooter, but cite his actions as support for building a wall?

    I think a condemnation of political extremism that exploits "envy and hatred", and class and racial division, along with examples from Sanders, AOC and Al Sharpton in front of whom the presidential aspirants genuflect, would cohere and could resonate.

    Where the El Paso killer posits that Mexicans immigrating are a problem, I don't see how Omar logically gets a pass for asserting that white men are the problem, or how the pseudo-Maoist confessions of white male candidates are different in substance.

    The constitutional justification for affirmative action, i.e. race based employment and contracting, is remedial.  The remedy isn't like a permanent golf handicap, but was supposed to remedy the remnants of disadvantages arising from slavery.  An announcement that the course of treatment over the last half century has run its course and we should return to a prohibition on using race as a factor in hiring and contracting would occupy a moral highground, could incorporate some nifty MLK quotes, and could be seen as leading public policy out of a spoils system that was never entirely satisfactory.
  • MC Escher said:

    On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose…

    500 to Medical errors
    300 to the Flu
    250 to Suicide
    200 to Car Accidents
    40 to Homicide via Handgun

    Source? Just curious....
  • Seth,

    That was a tweet by Neil Degrasse Tyson.

    I didn’t check his numbers because he has a rep for being anal about that sort of thing so I’m trusting his tweet.
  • nbody said:

    2.FOH. said:

    Re: Manifesto

    The 2nd to last paragraph is notable.

    I doubt CNN will be posting it anytime soon.


    Morning Joe had a panel on this morning all trying to one up each other in expression of moral outrage at DJT.  

    Remember when the TV only had ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS and a couple of independent UHF stations that mostly played old films?  Only four of those channels had real news once a day, and that was for a half hour.   You might think that with many more channels doing nothing but "news" they could cover more topics.  Instead, there wee two kinds of stories.  1.  There was a mass murder because our laws allow "Hi" capacity magazines in "Assault Weapons".  2.  These events are acts of white terrorism, the natural consequence of DJT's words.

    The only new element in this cycle is that the story isn't all option 1, because part of the derangement syndrome requires that bad news be about DJT in some way.  

    They blame him for "fanning tensions" with his rhetoric, but don't seem to know what that means.  If there is a tension between two groups, the Sanders Socialists/AOC Farmer Workers Socialists and people who feel threatened by bigger government and corporations, then addressing that tension with words is what lefties used to call "consciousness raising", talking about something until people think about it.

    Maybe it's natural to blame a problem on a person, but BHO, DJT, AOC and Sanders wouldn't be anyone without their constituencies.  My guess is that these constituencies would find expression in someone else if these people weren't available.

    I think most Republicans love bigger government, it's why they run huge deficits and want a huge military. Conservatives are a minority in the Republican party and I doubt any of these shooters are conservatives.
  • I ordinarily cite National Review articles with approval.  In the link below, Mona Charen, a generally intelligent and sensible woman, illustrates the danger of writing about something to which you haven't allotted much thought or understanding.

    Okay, but isn’t it possible that cosmetics matter? Certainly gun manufacturers act as if they do. They’ve designed guns to look more and more like weapons of war. They are advertised with images of heavily armored soldiers. Some gun ads use language exquisitely attuned to men’s desire for respect and even dominance. “Forces of opposition, bow down,” said one. The AR-15 Bushmaster was marketed with the slogan “Consider your man card reissued.”


    The TLDR version: We should ban arms with certain cosmetic features because dangerously unstable people (men) are drawn to those features and advertising that promises power and authority.  Her gripe is actually with free speech.

    Guns have been designed to look more and more like weapons of war?  I think that's false, and obviously false to anyone familiar with the civilian AR market.  Dave's pinch-lock Zev handguard doesn't show up in pictures of guys in Iraq.  I've never seen those awful 40 round plus magazines anywhere but a 3 gun match.  Show up with an A2 rifle at the range and you'll get a thumbs up for going "retro".  Wear woodland camo and you'll look about as cool as a civil war re-enactor.

    A4s are the government cheese of rifles.

    She's a good writer; she wrote an awful article.
  • FDS.

    Firearm Derangement Syndrome
  • Dayton shooter used an AR pistol with arm brace.
  • I am completely disinterested in listening to the hypocrisy.

    There’s a Dayton shooting in Chicago every fucking weekend but apparently that doesn’t matter.

    I could speculate that it’s because the victims are mainly black and therefore less important than white victims in Dayton Ohio or Hispanics on the Texas border, but that wouldn’t be the truth.

    The TRUTH is that the truth doesn’t matter; only the narrative does.
  • MC Escher said:

    I am completely disinterested in listening to the hypocrisy.

    There’s a Dayton shooting in Chicago every fucking weekend but apparently that doesn’t matter.

    I could speculate that it’s because the victims are mainly black and therefore less important than white victims in Dayton Ohio or Hispanics on the Texas border, but that wouldn’t be the truth.

    The TRUTH is that the truth doesn’t matter; only the narrative does.

    That'll be a 30 day ban, infidel.
  • As soon as I’m done serving my seven day sentence I’ll post it on Facebook and see if you’re correct.
Sign In or Register to comment.