Trump and the Wall

The pool has a thread about someone who doesn't want to visit his family because he finds their expressions of politics offensive and stressful.  This shook an idea loose.

I believe that part of what drive the left nutty about DJT is that he denies them the leverage to which they are accustomed.  How many times is a repub or conservative accused of sexism or racism only to respond that the accusation is unjust because the conservative works for equal opportunity and hires or works with lots of racial minorities, a list of good works that grants the legitimacy of the charge conceptually.  DJT's dismissive quality amounts to responding "So?".  People are so used to a grovelling response that acknowledges the leverage of the charge that they don't know what to do about being waved off with dismissal.

I spoke with Peter Kirsanow at an event last year and he thought that was the correct conclusion as well.  It's an emotional explanation for the emotional quality of the response of the left.

In that Pool thread I recite an explanation by Jordan Peterson of the reason people become violent over philosophical differences.  Primates have a sense of territoriality that drives them to violently
eject from their area an outsider or competitor for food or sex. People
abstract that sense of territory to include ideas. An idea from the
"outside" can give rise to that reflexive territoriality that demands
that we re-establish or confirm the boundary of our territory with
aggression or retreat to an area that is within the boundary.

If you are a leftist who thinks DJT is like Hitler because calling the star of Chitty Chitty Gangbang II and Field of Wet Dreams "Horse Face" is exactly like Auschwitz, you take for granted a wall of social prohibitions that the left has been building around us for more than three decades.  That wall is metaphorical, but the social prohibitions are certainly real.  The language cops in the workplace and public spaces stand guard as the wall is built ever higher.

When DJT says that celebrity and wealth are great because you are up to your knees in trim, or that Carly Fiorina is a 4, his social transgression is real.  These are rude observations, but we've become inured to them.  When DJT calls Haiti a shithole the protest rises, not from haitians who know Haiti gives shitholes a bad name, but from girls like Katrina vanden Heuvel, who works for The Nation from the giant house her wealthy husband bought.  When DJT calls the main character of Sorest Rump "horseface", normal people think "that wasn't kind" and move on, while the crazy people see a war on women, minorities and the poor.  Maybe these people know they sound crazy, but are determined to fight the invader who topples a wall that was decades in the making.

Their reliance on that wall is illustrated in the weakness of their responses.  The weakness and hysteria of the dem response to Kavanugh has been written about quite a bit.  More striking to me is the response of the the woman given a Senate seat in gratitude for her husband's work.  She went from ridiculing DJT for not pledging to accept the results of the election and warning us that this was proof of how very dangerous he was, to questioning the results of the election and advocating changing the Constitution in a way that would have increased her specific allotment of old white lady privilege, and warning us how very dangerous DJT is.

DJT's accomplishment isn't finding a way to build a wall, but finding a way to tear one down.


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Comments

  • If you find yourself suddenly taken ill and your life is on the line, which doctor would you prefer the in the emergency room when you show up.

    Dr. Phil or Dr. House?
  • I didn't realize you were so well acquainted with Ms Daniels film collection.

    I'm just not sure where it ends for the democrats.  If they are convinced conservatives are Hitler, how is it functionally different then being Hitler?
  • nbody said:

    ...I believe that part of what drive the left nutty about DJT is that he denies them the leverage to which they are accustomed...

    He's a pig.

    Speaking for myself, I'm not bothered that people like him exist, but I am bothered that he was elevated to his current position.

  • Well tough shit.
  • vwtool said:

    nbody said:

    ... I am bothered that he was elevated to his current position.

    I don't believe you.  What I suspect really bothers you is that he's correctly identified a political weakness among Democrats (the Leftist media's bias, and focus upon the most extreme people to sell their pap) a political weakness among the Republicans (the leadership's unpopular tolerance of illegal immigration, which allowed him to win the nomination against more moderate Republicans) and the fact that the combination of those two things is teaching lots of Republican candidates that they can fight Democrats (both candidates and in the media) effectively.

    If elevating crass men to the Whitehouse actually bothered you you wouldn't be starting with Trump, given what a crass scumbags LBJ, the Kennedys, and the Clintons were.
  • Were?

    Well, "while they were in the Whitehouse."  I suppose that is a somewhat necessary context to make explicit, to avoid implying that they've become less scummy upon leaving the Whitehouse.
  • Slap said:

    ...If elevating crass men to the Whitehouse actually bothered you...

    Crass is fine. Sometimes it takes crass to get the job done.

    I didn't say Trump is "crass," I said he's a pig.



    Slap said:

    ...you wouldn't be starting with Trump, given what a crass scumbags LBJ, the Kennedys, and the Clintons were.




    It's telling that you think Trump's actions are equivalent to the other presidents you named. Americans are used to political figures being rough around the edges, at times, as long as it stays largely hidden from the public. We're not used to our presidents acting like pigs in the performance of their public duties.
  • Oh please...

    Nobody believes that YOU believe your own bullshit.
  • MC Escher said:

    Oh please...

    Nobody believes that YOU believe your own bullshit.




    Pretty big word to describe such a small gathering.
  • vwtool said:

    Slap said:

    It's telling that you think...

    Make up more interesting strawmen.

    Do you think he'll pick a pretty Judge to replace RBG?  We know he'll want to put someone young on the Court, and not another dude.  Who should Trump's third pick be?
    ----
    That's one of the things that I think drives people like tool nuts the most.  The PC cultural walls Zuk writes about in the OP, isn't just being dismantled by Trump; it will continue to be dismantled by Republicans and judges he appoints well after Trump leaves the Whitehouse.  All the crassness and "Trump's a pig" nonsense is cover for their ongoing political frustration, and that they've become such a bunch of drones that they can't argue against his policies to save their own lives, or sanity.
  • Slap said:

    ...That's one of the things that I think drives people like tool nuts the most...

    No, what bothers me is the thing I stated, and if you want to have an "intelligent discussion," you should address my actual words and stop replying with suppositional speeches.

  • edited October 27
    vwtool said:

    Slap said:

    ...That's one of the things that I think drives people like tool nuts the most...

    No, what bothers me is the thing I stated, and if you want to have an "intelligent discussion," you should address my actual words and stop replying with suppositional speeches.

    Note the difference.

    If what you say bothers you is that the exec is a pig, it's more than a little pretentious to suggest that sticking to your words is a sine qua non for intelligent discussion.  Of course, you didn't actually mean that it is his porcine qualities that actually bother you, but that he doesn't conceal them.  Your objection to him turns out to be his lack of pretense.

    That's gold.
  • vwtool said:



    No, what bothers me is the thing I stated, and if you want to have an "intelligent discussion," you should address my actual words and stop replying with suppositional speeches.

    If you really want others to avoid employing straw-men against you, you wouldn't employ them so routinely yourself.  If you were really bothered by Trump being a pig, you wouldn't emulate the tactics of bigger pigs, like LBJ, which you've done.
  • nbody said:

    ...Of course, you didn't actually mean that it is his porcine qualities that actually bother you...

    No, that's it. As human beings go, he's a pig. As Presidents go, he's unprecedented, Slap's silly claims of equivalence aside.

    If you could take more people at their word about what bothers them, you wouldn't have to waste so much time cooking up crackpot theories to describe their "real" motivations.
  • Please cite some actual examples of Trump behaving like a pig in the performance of his duties. Points will be subtracted for citing fake news articles (like that one about feeding fish, total smear).
  • Repeated namecalling, btw, loses a lot of punch when things like "two scoops of ice cream" are presented as the evidence by our mainstream media.
  • vwtool said:

    Slap's silly claims of equivalence aside.

    Can you quote my "claims of equivalence" or even once claiming that they're equivalent?  Of course not; Trump isn't as slanderous and sleazy as LBJ, as unfaithful as JFK or Bill Clinton (or as deadly to young women as Ted Kennedy), or as corrupt as the Clintons.

    But you probably knew that when you composed your straw man, *while objecting to others not taking you at your word.*

    Save some energy for Trump's third Supreme Court pick, Tool.

    image
  • edited October 27
    To be fair to RBG, her excuse for that isn't that she's doddering and ancient, it's that she was really really really drunk.

    So THAT'S all right then.
  • edited October 27
    Ya know, most of the "pigs" I've met in my life tend to get drunk and/or do drugs.  It's pretty much a part of that package.

    Hillary drinks like a fish.

    We have pictures of Obama smoking joints.  He admits doing coke in his autobiography.

    Trump never drinks.  Hasn't since childhood.  Ditto no drugs.

    But he's the pig.  Cause being a teetotaler is clear evidence of a lack of discipline, or something.

    And for all his supposed vulgarity, I've never heard him actually use a vulgar word, outside of the single use of "pussy" caught on tape in what was supposed to be a private conversation.  We have more examples of vulgarities from Joe Biden.

    Not that I would blame Trump for a daily profanity filled tirade, given the utterly amoral jackals he has to deal with among the Left.
  • Qwinn said:

    To be fair to RBG, her excuse for that isn't that she's doddering and ancient, it's that she was really really really drunk.

    So THAT'S all right then.

    Hey!  She likes Beer.  Lots of people like Beer!  I like Beer!

    image




  • Qwinn said:

    Ya know, most of the "pigs" I've met in my life tend to get drunk and/or do drugs.  It's pretty much a part of that package.

    Hillary drinks like a fish.

    We have pictures of Obama smoking joints.  He admits doing coke in his autobiography.

    Trump never drinks.  Hasn't since childhood.  Ditto no drugs.

    But he's the pig.  Cause being a teetotaler is clear evidence of a lack of discipline, or something.

    And for all his supposed vulgarity, I've never heard him actually use a vulgar word, outside of the single use of "pussy" caught on tape in what was supposed to be a private conversation.  We have more examples of vulgarities from Joe Biden.

    Not that I would blame Trump for a daily profanity filled tirade, given the utterly amoral jackals he has to deal with among the Left.



    Trump is a pig. He is also a disgustingly fat human. That said his attacks on others tend to be bizarrely humorous if only for the shock factor.
  • edited October 29
    Qwinn said:

    Ya know, most of the "pigs" I've met in my life tend to get drunk and/or do drugs...




    Most of the "pigs" I know act less-than-human. I don't care if they drink or do some drugs as long as it doesn't interfere with whatever function they're performing. That person "X" drinks and person "Y" is a teetotaler speaks nothing about their character.

    Trump is a pig because he's a spoiled man-child who doesn't care what he breaks, who he hurts, or what number of lies he tells in order to 'win.' Whether he knows what he's doing or not, or if it's intentional, I don't care. He's sowing chaos and division because he can't tell the difference between being the President, and starring on The Apprentice. Neither, apparently, can many of his supporters.
  • Well, I guess that is one big difference between President Trump and President Obama, Hillary and others... they are very intentional about what they break and who they hurt to win.
  • vwtool said:


    a spoiled man-child

    who doesn't care

    what he breaks,

    who he hurts,

    what number of lies he tells

    in order to 'win.'

    Whether he knows

    what he's doing

    or not,

    or if it's

    intentional,

    I don't care.

    Projection

    is a harsh

    mistress

  • Well, I guess that is one big difference between President Trump and President Obama, Hillary and others... they are very intentional about what they break and who they hurt to win.

    If you don't yet have some understanding of what a horrible human being Trump is, you likely never will. 
  • Woyzeck said:

    ...
    Projection

    is a harsh

    mistress




    So you’re arguing against the very purpose of this forum?
  • vwtool said:


    If you don't yet have some understanding of what a horrible human being Trump is, you likely never will.

    How dare you talk that way about our first Jewish President!
  • He puts ketchup on his steaks, I know what sort of monster he is.  Your outrage over him as a pig is still hilariously defective.
  • edited October 30
    Kind of a long story about my experience with TDS....

    With the first cool front of the season a couple of weeks ago, I made my first batch of chili con carne. This kind of thing can be a bit of an event, and now friends ask for invites to come and partake. At the table were my wife, son and daughter (almost 17 now), sister in law, and two friends who are newly married.

    The husband is a long time friend of ours and an interesting character. He's a professional architect, who was a general contractor in his previous life. He's not very stereotypical as architects go (no black turtleneck, no black Corbusier eyeglasses). He is also a Guatemalan immigrant who just attained his citizenship after about 20 years here as a legal resident. We'll call him Peter (not his real name).

    As I mentioned here before, the SIL (Barbara) is a rabid (and I mean *rabid*) anti-Trump voter. My daughter, typical of her age and peer group is no fan either, but she attempts to keep an open mind and even tries to advise the folks in her democracy club at school not to fall into a echo-chamber.

    Peter, who has known Barb for a long time, decided to poke the bear and brought up politics. Barbara went into a fuming rant. To give you an idea of just how weird she is about it, when the Patriots went to the Super Bowl, she rooted for the Panthers *just* because the Kraft family happens to be friends with Trump. This is a woman who cares nothing for football, but every two yard gain by Carolina meant sitting through an over-enthusiastic and annoying "Yippee!" and clapping. *sigh* She wasn't invited back for about 6 months. Not because of her politics, but because she was so petulant and obnoxious.

    Peter really started to press her about why she hates Trump so much. He wouldn't accept responses like, "He's a horrible person.". He acknowledged and agreed with her on that. But she couldn't articulate what he's done as president that has been so bad. It was pathetic to the point that I wanted to help her out, but as the party host, I also didn't want to get involved. And I knew what Peter was doing; trying to get Barbara to think critically and not just with her quim because Stephen Colbert said so.

    It got to the point that my daughter even told Barbara, "Look, you're not helping. You're just making us look bad."

    *sigh* I fear that this is how most people vote.

    BTW, it didn't really land on anyone that Trump's most ardent supporter of the evening is a Latino immigrant. Heh...
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