Church needs more exorcists

edited November 2010 in Religion & Philosophy
Please, please, please, please may I sign up????
NEW YORK (Nov. 12) -- Citing a shortage of priests who can perform the rite, the nation's Roman Catholic bishops are holding a conference on how to conduct exorcisms...

http://www.aolnews.com/religion/article/catholic-bishops-more-exorcists-needed/19715488
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Comments

  • Why all the fuss? Give the "possessed" some Risperdal and call it a day.
  • Um, because that's not nearly as fun and also exorcism isn't covered by insurance, which makes it easier to play the "poor me" card.
  • said:

    Why all the fuss? Give the "possessed" some Risperdal and call it a day.


    Is that like a more expensive version of Lithium?
  • said:

    said:

    Why all the fuss? Give the "possessed" some Risperdal and call it a day.


    Is that like a more expensive version of Lithium?
    Rots the teeth just the same. Right Zuk?
  • My presumption is that most of you do not believe something along the lines of demonic possession possible, hence the need for persons trained in the arts of biblical counseling for the purpose of dealing with this spiritual issue a non-starter.

    I'm not really at liberty to share a lot of details because of pastoral prerogatives to not share private information, but I am currently dealing with an individual who was indoctrinated (abused and tortured) by a satanic cult until that individual had 30 personalities, many of which are extensions of the main personalities implanted within this person (there were about 8 main personalities, of varying ages and genders).

    The indoctrination was intentional, planned according to a desired personality map, and outfitted with double blinds, black hole traps, and other personality devices that would have led to suicide if not handled correctly.

    I am currently collaborating on a book with this individual and I have all the notes and personal artifacts (pictures, drawings, letters, stories written, etc.) since childhood. The (successful) treatment was a combination of psychology and biblical counseling (primarily prayer in the sense of exorcism). There isn't a drug on earth that could have helped this individual, and every possible one was tried before the successful counseling that finally broke the bonds that held this person captive.

    The process does not work out quite like the movies and television portray, and in fact, those means often cause more problems than they solve. The intentional process involved and the depths of human (and satanic) perversions are astounding to say the least. Just the thought of the "code words" being applied to a 3-year old send shudders down my spine. What that ultimately does to a person as they mature is sick. That a Christian spiritual solution was/is the only hope is miraculous and a faith-building wonder.
  • said:

    My presumption is that most of you do not believe something along the lines of demonic possession possible, hence the need for persons trained in the arts of biblical counseling for the purpose of dealing with this spiritual issue a non-starter.



    How is belief or disbelief neccesary to enjoy teh funney?
  • edited November 2010
    ...wrong thread...
  • said:

    There isn't a drug on earth that could have helped this individual

    Is cyanide not a drug?

    Kiddding.

    Demonic posession wigs me out.
  • said:

    There isn't a drug on earth that could have helped this individual, and every possible one was tried before the successful counseling that finally broke the bonds that held this person captive.

    So, you are saying that LSD was actually tried here? How'd you get the license from DEA?
  • said:

    said:

    There isn't a drug on earth that could have helped this individual, and every possible one was tried before the successful counseling that finally broke the bonds that held this person captive.

    So, you are saying that LSD was actually tried here? How'd you get the license from DEA?

    Hey! What did we tell you about discussing MK Ultra in public? :mad:
  • said:

    said:

    There isn't a drug on earth that could have helped this individual, and every possible one was tried before the successful counseling that finally broke the bonds that held this person captive.

    So, you are saying that LSD was actually tried here? How'd you get the license from DEA?
    LSD was used on the individual as part of the ritual abuse that lead to the other issues.
  • Guy, coercive persuasion is not a supernatural event. While I'm certainly not anti-prayer or anti-religion, what likely saved this man was a supersized regimen of CBT conducted by a skilled practicioner (in this case, the psychologist and perhaps your counseling style and abilityl).

    Though I am not buying your conclusion, I do think it's great that you are helping this individual turn his life around.
  • edited November 2010
    The individual was partly abused into their state and partly inhabited by spiritual entities. The level of torture they went through was horrific. Stuff that would make Godwin-type Germans blush... Worse, it was purposeful satanic ritual abuse according to a set plan.

    Edit:

    I didn't have anything to do with the actual counseling (which has taken over 10 years). It was prayer-based, but some typical psychological drugs are prescribed and used as well, mostly anti-depressants now.

    I'm writing the book based on the life story, and using the therapy notes and personal interviews as the basis. It will be something... If I can pull it off, it will be on the lines of Sybil.
  • You know, you're both missing the point.
  • said:

    said:

    said:

    There isn't a drug on earth that could have helped this individual, and every possible one was tried before the successful counseling that finally broke the bonds that held this person captive.

    So, you are saying that LSD was actually tried here? How'd you get the license from DEA?
    LSD was used on the individual as part of the ritual abuse that lead to the other issues.
    That's a non-sequitur. LSD is a powerful tool, but like any powerful tool, it can be as easily (or better, more easily) mis-used by un- or im- properly trained (or just downright malicious) individuals as it can be used to good effect by properly trained professionals. Thus, your comment is really meaningless.
  • said:

    said:

    said:



    So, you are saying that LSD was actually tried here? How'd you get the license from DEA?

    LSD was used on the individual as part of the ritual abuse that lead to the other issues.
    That's a non-sequitur. LSD is a powerful tool, but like any powerful tool, it can be as easily (or better, more easily) mis-used by un- or im- properly trained (or just downright malicious) individuals as it can be used to good effect by properly trained professionals. Thus, your comment is really meaningless.
    I know it, but I love to gig you when I can, just for fun... ;)
  • Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: `The flag is moving.'

    The other said: `The wind is moving.'

    The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: `Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.'

  • edited November 2010
    edit to delete duplicate post
  • edited November 2010
    said:

    Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: `The flag is moving.'

    The other said: `The wind is moving.'

    The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: `Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.'

    Ahhh, your mu-mon-kan-fu is impressive grasshopper, however

    Wind, flag, mind moves
    The same understanding,
    When the mouth opens,
    All are wrong.

    :lol:
  • said:

    said:

    Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: `The flag is moving.'

    The other said: `The wind is moving.'

    The sixth patriarch happened to be passing by. He told them: `Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.'

    Ahhh, your mu-mon-kan-fu is impressive grasshopper, however

    Wind, flag, mind moves
    The same understanding,
    When the mouth opens,
    All are wrong.

    Multiple versions of that koan...

    And the two guys missing the point probably don't even realize it was meant for them.


    Maybe this version will help...?

    About a century or two ago, the Pope decided that all the Jews had to leave Rome. Naturally there was a big uproar from the Jewish community.

    So the Pope made a deal. He would have a religious debate with a member of the Jewish community. If the Jew won, the Jews could stay. If the Pope won, the Jews would leave.

    The Jews realized that they had no choice. They looked around for a champion who could defend their faith, but no one wanted to volunteer.

    No one wanted to be the one to risk losing a debate with the pope. Finally an old man named Moishe said that he would do it, since if no one did, the Jews would be forced to leave. He asked only that neither side be allowed to talk during the debate. The Pope finally agreed.

    The day of the great debate came. Moishe and the Pope sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Moishe looked back at him and raised one finger.

    The Pope waved his fingers in a circle around his head. Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat.

    The Pope pulled out a wafer and a glass of wine. Moishe pulled out an apple.

    The Pope stood up and said, "I give up. This man is too good. The Jews can stay."

    An hour later, the cardinals were all around the Pope asking him what happened. The Pope said: "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there was still one God common to both our religions.

    "Then I waved my finger around me to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground, showing that God was also right here with us.

    "I pulled out the wine and the wafer to show that God absolves us from our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?"

    Meanwhile, the Jewish community had crowded around Moishe, amazed that this old, almost feeble-minded man had done what all their scholars had insisted was impossible! "What happened?" they asked.

    "Well," said Moishe, "First he said to me that the Jews had three days to get out of here. I told him that not one of us was leaving.

    "Then he told me that this whole city would be cleared of Jews. I let him know that we were staying right here."

    "And then?" asked a woman. "I don't know," said Moishe. "He took out his lunch and I took out mine."

  • edited November 2010
    said:

    said:



    Ahhh, your mu-mon-kan-fu is impressive grasshopper, however

    Wind, flag, mind moves
    The same understanding,
    When the mouth opens,
    All are wrong.

    Multiple versions of that koan...

    And the two guys missing the point probably don't even realize it was meant for them.


    Maybe this version will help...?

    About a century or two ago, the Pope decided that all the Jews had to leave Rome. Naturally there was a big uproar from the Jewish community.

    So the Pope made a deal. He would have a religious debate with a member of the Jewish community. If the Jew won, the Jews could stay. If the Pope won, the Jews would leave.

    The Jews realized that they had no choice. They looked around for a champion who could defend their faith, but no one wanted to volunteer.

    No one wanted to be the one to risk losing a debate with the pope. Finally an old man named Moishe said that he would do it, since if no one did, the Jews would be forced to leave. He asked only that neither side be allowed to talk during the debate. The Pope finally agreed.

    The day of the great debate came. Moishe and the Pope sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Moishe looked back at him and raised one finger.

    The Pope waved his fingers in a circle around his head. Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat.

    The Pope pulled out a wafer and a glass of wine. Moishe pulled out an apple.

    The Pope stood up and said, "I give up. This man is too good. The Jews can stay."

    An hour later, the cardinals were all around the Pope asking him what happened. The Pope said: "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there was still one God common to both our religions.

    "Then I waved my finger around me to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground, showing that God was also right here with us.

    "I pulled out the wine and the wafer to show that God absolves us from our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?"

    Meanwhile, the Jewish community had crowded around Moishe, amazed that this old, almost feeble-minded man had done what all their scholars had insisted was impossible! "What happened?" they asked.

    "Well," said Moishe, "First he said to me that the Jews had three days to get out of here. I told him that not one of us was leaving.

    "Then he told me that this whole city would be cleared of Jews. I let him know that we were staying right here."

    "And then?" asked a woman. "I don't know," said Moishe. "He took out his lunch and I took out mine."

    An impressive adaptation of #26, Trading Dialog for Lodging.

    Provided that he makes and wins an argument about Buddhism with those who live there, any wandering monk can remain in a Zen temple. If he is defeated, he has to move on.

    In a temple in northern Japan, two monks were dwelling together. The elder one was learned, but the younger one was stupid and had but one eye.

    A wandering monk came and asked for lodging, properly challenging them to a debate about the sublime teaching. The elder one, tired that day from much studying, told the younger one to take his place. "Go and request the dialog in silence," he cautioned.

    So the younger monk and the stranger went to the shrine and sat down.

    Shortly after, the stranger went to the elder brother and said: "Your young brother is a wonderful fellow. He defeated me."

    "Relate the dialog to me," said the elder one.

    "Well," said the traveller, "first I held up one finger, representing the Buddha, the enlightened one. So he held up two fingers, signify the Buddha and his teaching. I held up three fingers, representing the Buddha, his teaching and his followers, living his harmonious life. Then he held up his clenched fist in my face, indicating that all three come from one realization. thus, he won and I have no right to remain here. With this, the traveller left.

    "Where is that fellow?" asked the younger one, running in to his elder brother.

    "I understand that you won the debate."

    "Won nothing, I'm going to beat him up."

    "Tell me the subject of the debate," asked the elder one.

    "Why, the minute he saw me, he held up one finger, insulting me by insinuating that I have only one eye. Since he was a stranger I thought I would be polite to him, so I held up two fingers, congratulating him that he has two eyes. Then the impolite wretch held up three fingers, suggesting that between us we have only three eyes. So I got mad and started to punch him, but he ran out and that ended it.
  • Interpretation is everything.
  • said:

    Interpretation is everything.


    Not exactly the point of the Koans, especially the short one about wind/flag/mind, but certainly true.

    Probably more accurate to say "perspective".


    Most importantly, since tweedle dee and tweedle dummy aren't going to get this on their own...


    Drugs, psychology, religious faith...

    All of that is besides the point.

    The "patient" who was "cured", or whatever you want to call the person and procedure, is probably only concerned with ONE thing: A resumption of normalcy and sanity.

    You can argue the religious/scientific perspectives for 100 years, but you don't want to overlook the VICTIM perspective.
  • Speaking of perspective...

    When he was a young man, Luther O'Goldberg was troubled by the conflicts he saw around him. He went to many people seeking a way to resolve the discords that troubled him, but to no avail.

    One night in a coffee house, a self ordained Zen minister said to him, "Go to the dilapidated mansion at this address. Do not speak to those who live there, you must remain silent until the moon rises tomorrow night, Go to the large room on the right of the main hallway, sit in the lotus position on top of the rubble in the northeast corner. Face the corner and meditate.

    He did as the zen master instructed. His meditation was frequently interrupted by worries. He worried if the rest of the plumbing would fall and join the pipes and trash he was sitting on. He worried how he would know when the moon rose the next night. He worried about what the people who walked through the room said about him.

    His worrying and meditation were interrupted when, as if in a test of his faith, a large amount of bodily wastes fell from the second floor onto him. At that time two people walked into the room.

    "Who is the man sitting there in the corner?"

    "Some say he is a holy man. Others say he is a shit head."

    Hearing this, Luther was enlightened.

  • See my video link in the Beatles thread... Works for both you guys. You compete to be "The Greatest Man in the World." :lol:
  • No we don't.

    Gentleman that he is, he acknowledges my supremacy.
  • said:

    No we don't.

    Gentleman that he is, he acknowledges my supremacy.

    My wife always reminds me that there is one less "great" man in the room than I think there is. Perhaps she and your own significant other should speak...
  • You REALLY need to pull that stick outta yer ass, you know?
  • So, after all that--I still just want to take the class.
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